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Rachel Baker: I guess. I'll start by introducing myself. Hi, I'm Rachel Baker, the founder of TEJO.CA, We provide an AI skin diagnostic tool for the cosmetics industry and spas. So we help spas and brands make more money and get more conversions. I have two lovely speakers with me today. Who've agreed to do webinar. Alan Kaufman and Stefan. How about Alan? Would you like to introduce yourself?
Alan Kaufman: Hello everybody. I'm Alan Kaufman and my history over the years. I ran a family business for 30, Some odd years, in jewelry. Manufacturing, I sold that business to Berkshire Hathaway and worked for them for 10 years. And today I do some consulting.
Rachel Baker: And Stefan.
Stefan Pagacik: Hi everyone, Stefan Pagacik, I've had a career in technology product development. I've worked for Apple and Adobe have also worked as an entrepreneur started. A Marine Science accelerator here in Massachusetts and for the last 15 years, I've been Focused on impact and sustainability from a technology perspective.
Rachel Baker: Okay, my first question for you Stefan is why should beauty and cosmetic companies care about sustainability.
Stefan Pagacik: How come Alan doesn't get the first question?
Rachel Baker: the two of you can answer it has
Stefan Pagacik: Not. Go ahead,…
Alan Kaufman: You want me to answer first Stephan? ie,…
Stefan Pagacik: Alan. Go ahead.
Alan Kaufman: because their customers want them to So, research is showing that 75% of shoppers, regardless of their generation. So many people believe that, it's just the younger generation who care. But when you see the breakout amongst all the different age categories, it's pretty constant. say they care versus how many people say? They don't care. 75% of their customers. That's pretty driving reason.
Stefan Pagacik: That makes a lot of sense, I would have Alan, I think I would have gone with the 21 to 34 demographic. And again, I don't have your background in the cosmetics industry.
Stefan Pagacik: But I would have gone with that graphic. Why people should care. it's because as businesses we don't operate in a vacuum, everything that we do is connected through communities that we work in that are employees and our leaders work and live in and so It may not be readily apparent to a lot of people, but the actions that we take the decisions that we make the policies that govern our businesses do have an impact in these communities and they can be felt either from An environmental perspective or a social perspective and we need to start paying attention to it. Because as Allen said, The customers care about it and they care about it enough to switch brands.
Stefan Pagacik: So that's, one of the many reasons why we do need as an industry to look at this and say I want to produce a product that's really great for my customer base but I want to do it beyond just making We want everyone looking good but we want to do it in a way that's sustainable and healthy for our planet.
Rachel Baker: So what specific areas of sustainability should cosmetic companies pay attention to and make certain that they report on regularly?
Alan Kaufman: I can start with that. it starts with their supply chain.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah.
Alan Kaufman: So there are so many issues that they can work on to reduce the energy that you use, reduce the water that they use etc, then it drives to the design of their products. And they can use AI to forecast, how all these things will help drive this sustainability.
Stefan Pagacik: So Joanne had a question. I don't know. Rachel, are we going to take questions during the presentation? I'm happy to, answer.
Rachel Baker: I'm sure we can also, I think it might be easier if the questions get put into the chat, and I can, Feel them.
Stefan Pagacik: Okay.
Rachel Baker: Joanne,…
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, no, no. Go ahead.
Rachel Baker: if you want to just put your question there and that'd be fantastic.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, so I just following up on what Alan said. I think that I look at it from a product perspective, being a product developer myself, I would look at what goes into building and making that product and
Stefan Pagacik: whether or not the materials or the ingredients we're locally, sourced does it have to travel a great distance? Then you start to get into scope three emissions if you're measuring your carbon footprint, which is a tough thing to do which is very important. So I would look at How the product is built. If it's if it's, makeup what is it that you're putting into this product? How is it being sourced?
Stefan Pagacik: The people that are providing you with the base for creating that product, how sustainably are they acting or not? And that's often the toughest hurdle for companies to overcome whether you're in the cosmetics industry or really any industry is going into your supply chain is Alan pointed out and finding out how they are treating sustainability and how they're reporting on it and what their policies are and whether they line up with what you consider to be good sustainable business practice.
Rachel Baker: Can you talk to me about what type of research process a company should go through in order and Validate their third party suppliers.
Stefan Pagacik: Allen, do you want to jump in?
Alan Kaufman: I think the key here is for them to have someone on their team or a third party. That's Got the expertise Because most management teams accept in very. Large companies wouldn't necessarily have that expertise
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah.
Alan Kaufman: So I think that's kind of a driving factor, for me and I would add going back to the last conversation that Stefan was just saying. I think it's also important to know that many of the larger retailers Part of when they're working to their supply chain. They're looking at their vendors to meet certain sustainability.
Alan Kaufman: Areas in order to help the retail and meet their goals. So for all those, in the cosmetic industries who are vendors to retailers, if they're not already, they're going to be challenged to bring certain sustainability levels to the table in order to maintain their relationships with those retails.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, one of the hardest parts, Rachel in this area is trying to not only quantify but validate what the supply chain is doing, what these vendors are doing because very often they'll just report on what they can control or what they see benefits. Them makes them. Look better. Ie greenwashing And that unfortunately gives it distorted picture from a cosmetics industry perspective. It gives it distorted picture as to how sustainable your business really is but it's really critical to find out and,
Stefan Pagacik: Part of the problem that this industry having is around verification and authenticity of data. It's very, very tricky, it's time-consuming. And as Alan just pointed out, You've got to have the resources. You've got to have people who have expertise who know how to ask the right questions and you can't be afraid of asking those questions If you're afraid of a supplier dropping out of your ecosystem, simply, because you're asking tough questions. That's the wrong motivation. You need to be prepared to say, Look, These are our governing principles. If you're not in alignment with those principles, whether it be fair wage, whether it be sourcing, materials and fair, working conditions, whatever that might be, you've got to be able to ask those hard questions, and not be afraid of the supplier getting up and saying, sorry, I don't agree with that. I'm going on my separate way. You have to be okay with that if
Stefan Pagacik: A really truly going to build in and bake in sustainability into your operations.
Alan Kaufman: and if you look at the pattern over the years of where the retailers have focused in, requiring the vendors to meet certain conditions, it all started with social compliance, And in supply chains around the world. Many of the factories, of course using child labor. We're using Unworkable conditions and there are many situations such as fires that caused issues and that brought along, I want to say about 10 years back to where many of the major retailers created their own.
Alan Kaufman: teams that each vendor was required to show what their total supply chain was. And then inspectors would go into these facilities around the world to check out the conditions and firsthand. I saw that, if there was a problem, they would give you an opportunity to fix it, but if you didn't fix it, you could no longer use that vendor and they were willing the major retailers that I worked with. we're willing to not take a product that was very important to them. If the social compliance goals couldn't be met and I think sustainability now is stepping into that same area. And if
Alan Kaufman: As time goes on it, then design able to throughout the whole supply chain. Confirm this, that the meeting sustainability goals, no matter how good their product is, and how much money the retail is making on it. Because the retailer needs to reach out to their consumers and assure them. That this sustainability goals are getting accepted and met, then you could lose that customer.
Rachel Baker: What are some good examples of questions that? You should be asking with respect to sustainability.
Stefan Pagacik: .
Stefan Pagacik: If you're trying to determine, how sustainable a company. if you're asking somebody in your ecosystem and your supply chain, you want to ask them how they source their materials. First of all, in terms of building the product base that you're eventually going to acquire you want to ask them about their fair, labor rates. I mean, they're fair, labor practices, wage rates,
Stefan Pagacik: You want to find out what carbon accounting they're doing for their carbon footprint. There are just a whole list of questions that come under ESG and it depends if it's an environmental question, if you're asking, How do you treat waste common? how many gallons of water do you use? Do you recycle, do you do any of these things and then you have to prove it and that's the other big part of this is you've got to be able to ask for some proof and that proof usually comes in the form of documentation or management, data collection that can be verified by a third party. Usually, in audit firm
Stefan Pagacik: so you've got to be able to, and this is time consuming. It's painstaking, it's not cost-effective at least initially, but once you get going on this, and you bake it into your own operating practices, it becomes after the 10th company, it becomes so much easier. and once you get a system and a process in place, You can then make it part of your whole sustainability agenda and it just becomes simpler to determine whether or not you want to work with a vendor.
Rachel Baker: Great.
Rachel Baker: So, Sabrina asked is animal cruelty a part of sustainability.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, For sure.
Rachel Baker: Yeah.
Stefan Pagacik: I mean, I always like to give the example Rachel of A company that uses animals for testing for products. And then chucks the carcasses in a river that's used for drinking water. and I mean these kinds of practices have happened in the past, And you really have to. Stand up, it because companies are forever trying to increase their margins, right? So it might be more expensive to go with another supplier that doesn't do that. But at the same time you have to ask, is your What hit Are you willing to take by continuing to go with the supplier that is demonstrating cruelty to animals, but gives you your product at a lower price.
Stefan Pagacik: And is it worth the five or seven percent hike in margins vis? The PR reputational risk And hit that, you'll take from that.
Alan Kaufman: and reputational risk, I think, is You can put it at the highest level, so I'm just going to share an example, from my experience of working for Warren Buffett, He sent all of his executives every year in the first week of January, a letter that you were required to sign and send back in. Basically, it said The worst thing you can do on behalf of our company is to create a PR mess. So do not in any way, shape, or form ever do. Anything that if it was reported on the front page in the New York Times, you wouldn't be proud to have them. that was the one thing. We heard from him every year. And so apply that to sustainability. If we were to put carcasses in the river, I think we would not have met the signature. We put on the letter.
Rachel Baker: So sort of to that point what are the branding and positioning advantages for cosmetic companies that engage in sustainability reporting?
Stefan Pagacik: I think they're tremendous. I mean, Alan you want to take that first? And I mean, I'll just
Alan Kaufman: I think if you look at All the different materials and PR there to put out by major companies. Right now, you see How well, they know and understand this and how they go about it. And I just brought one example with me but many of us Receive multiple.
Alan Kaufman: Catalogs in the mail every day, every week, from all the different, cruise companies and everything. And one of the better-known cruise companies being liking, I know everybody can see this but here they are in a catalog that they're trying to sell cruises on and they position a two-page article on their sustainability issues in the middle of that. so, I think
Alan Kaufman: When you have a product, that's in the marketplace, adding your sustainability points. Very concise, and very direct on the packaging. Is critical because you want to bring it to the consumer's attention because the consumer cares. I think that'd be my driving point in the cosmetics world.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, I think having worked for product companies. The branding and packaging and labeling. And of course, you got to be careful with your packaging to make it sustainable too. it's really bad If you splash all over the packaging that, you're sustainability conscious. but the packaging is plastic that eventually makes its way into the ocean. that really doesn't help you. You have to think about this from again. the moment the product is formulated to when it gets packaged and delivered to the consumer, and you have to think about that journey that the package is going to take everything from
Stefan Pagacik: the materials that you use to package it to how it's being handled transported, and then eventually put on the shelf and with that Effort. You can create a great branding, mechanism that will separate you from other cosmetics companies by demonstrating and showing that you really think through this entire journey. And I think from a consumer perspective you'll get greater appreciation and consumers will be willing to pay a higher price if you give them that journey and you tell them that you are making this investment. in sustainability for your product, everything from the packaging to the transport, to the shelving
Stefan Pagacik: They'll pick up on that and they'll be willing to pay a higher price for it because they know that what they're getting is a product from a company that really does care about this topic.
Rachel Baker: Awesome.
Rachel Baker: Joanne. Fowler in the chat was talking about how there's Pfas is the Can. be quite harmful, how should
Rachel Baker: Brands.
Rachel Baker: Manage if regulation isn't up to par with their own personal standards.
Alan Kaufman: I think one of the best marketing tools that you can have is,…
Rachel Baker: Of.
Alan Kaufman: if you can say that you reach well beyond the standards that exist, And so if their standards aren't there to assure that then I think individual companies, there's an opportunity to say we go beyond. we don't believe the standards are challenging us to the true level that they should. And we reach way beyond those and then they share what they are doing. That's above and beyond whatever the regulations are.
Rachel Baker: All right.
Rachel Baker: Are there any worldwide rules for ESG?
Stefan Pagacik: yeah, they're different standards for SFDR which is in Europe now, which is on climate risk reporting. The SEC is going to come out with their own set of climate disclosure. In fact I just read this morning that California is introducing a bill Specifically, for climate risk and climate disclosure reporting their own statewide disclosure. So in addition to Potentially reporting to the SEC. If you're a California-based company, you would have to also report to this particular legislation that Governor Gavin Newsom is trying to push through in California, and in all likelihood, it will pass
Stefan Pagacik: Because they deal with GHG emissions more so than other states here in the US.
Alan Kaufman: And I think history shows that if you want to know where regulations gonna go, you watch California, it takes the rest of the country,…
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah.
Alan Kaufman: a long time to catch up with California's so far ahead and some people think overly but if you want to know what you got to prepare for in the future watch, California.
Rachel Baker: Yeah, so is it fair to ask whether sustainability reporting is important to top and bottom line growth for companies? why not?
Alan Kaufman: One repeat that please.
Rachel Baker: Is it fair to ask whether it's sustainability, reporting is important. To top and bottom line growth for companies.
Alan Kaufman: I don't know what the reporting itself. I mean, it's an indirect factor. I think if the reported it helps them with their customers. So I think it's an indirect line versus direct line.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, it's important. if it shows that there are ways for business process improvement within the company,…
Rachel Baker: Okay.
Stefan Pagacik: And that means And when I say materially, I mean financially. What are the material and Ramifications for that, those might not be readily available, they might not jump out at a company right away. And it may have to be something that happens over time. And that's something that The company will have to weigh short-term gain or loss versus long-term gain. From something like that. And only the company can answer that.
Alan Kaufman: And at the beginning of the conversation, I jumped out and said customers with a main reason for brands to look at sustainability. But in a report put out by Deloitte, they referred in addition to the customers to board members and regulators as being key drivers of this, So, most of the larger companies of course have outside board members and…
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah.
Alan Kaufman: these board members are truly concerned about this and so that can tie to the reporting, the reporting can keep their board members comfortable and begin to show the regulator. If a regulator comes in I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US
Stefan Pagacik: Just make sure you can back it up. You gotta back it up…
Stefan Pagacik: because you're not going to fool these people. I mean, I was on a conference call with the SEC and There were about 300 chief executive officers, from different companies here in the US. And the overriding question was around scope three. And they said, How is the SEC going to treat scope Three emissions? And these are indirect emissions. These are emissions that come from your supply chain from anyone. You do business with they can encompass, things like business travel And that was the overriding question. Me. And the woman who is an assistant director at the SEC. Was very transparent. She said, we haven't decided that yet but know that we are thinking about it and we will come to some conclusion on it. So if you're not measuring it or if you're not making,
Stefan Pagacik: A good faith effort to measure it know that we will punish you for it. So Having a legal and compliance officer or a law firm that has experience in this area. Is going to be extremely important to you and getting out in front of it. Is a whole lot better than having to answer for it. After the fact,
Rachel Baker: And so what you retailers expect from avenger regarding sustainability reporting.
Alan Kaufman: Absolutely.
Alan Kaufman: I think. That depends on who the retailer is, but every retailer is going to have their own different way of looking at this.
Alan Kaufman: I think they're going to look for most importantly, transparency. when a vendor's contractor doesn't allow the retailer through their doors. That is the worst thing that can happen to transparency total outdoor open door policy and…
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, I think it also depends somewhat on the size of the vendor.
Alan Kaufman: then they'll all have their own goals as to what you need to meet.
Alan Kaufman: But in what time period and…
Stefan Pagacik: so, if it's a mom and…
Stefan Pagacik: pop shop,…
Alan Kaufman: many of them will have teams that will help their vendors achieve those goals.
Stefan Pagacik: or if it's a smaller vendor, that's in a specialty area of cosmetics,…
Alan Kaufman: Because then they realize that the vendors may not have.
Stefan Pagacik: as opposed to a larger vendor or somebody who wants to private label,
Alan Kaufman: The expertise on their own teams.
Stefan Pagacik: I guess you really have to consider and think about What that means for the growth of your company, and what it means, going forward. I always err on the side of caution, it just, make sure that you've got all your eyes done and your t's crossed and just, pick the right partners. when you're doing something like this,
Rachel Baker: So benchmarks and standards for ESG. Reporting seem to be diverse and somewhat confusing. What would you recommend to companies seeking to align with one or more of these reporting guidelines?
Stefan Pagacik: Wow, pick one. And just, really get to Really understand what they're asking for.
Stefan Pagacik: They can be really confusing. I had the opportunity to utilize a saspy, which is Michael Bloomberg's. Version of FAZBE it stands for Sustainable Accounting. Standards Board. And SAS be breaks down their reporting by pharmaceutical automotive construction banking, I happen to look at the pharmaceutical vehicle and they had 20 companies that were reporting in using SASBY Navigator. Company. The company that Failed to answer about 15 of the questions. The company that was ranked 15th.
Stefan Pagacik: Failed to answer only seven of the question. No it was the other way around the company the company number three answered all but seven the company that ranked 15th answered all but 12 to 15 of the questions. But here's what got really interesting. SASBY had a waiting system for Some of the questions. So the company that finished third Answered questions even though they left key questions blank.
Stefan Pagacik: They were not penalized for those questions because they weren't waited as heavily as the company that finished 15th That didn't answer.
Alan Kaufman: He?
Stefan Pagacik: Four key questions and got penalized for it. I don't know if the company's new that or not, it became apparent to me as I dug into it. And I saw that, these gaps and reporting Some of it could have been intentional that the company just said, we don't have the data on this or we're not going to collect it. But they may or may not have been aware of the fact that Saspy was waiting. Those questions based on how they were going to rank the companies. So company number 15 could have been looking at it and said, Wait a minute, We answered the really tough questions. But you penalize us because we missed three or four questions that we couldn't get data for how the heck is that fair. So you really have to be careful and understand.
Stefan Pagacik: what you're responding to and part of the problem with Summit with all these frameworks is they ask the same question but they ask it in a different way, they're asking for the same data but they're asking it in a different way or they have different restrictions on how they weigh the question. Overall in terms of their scoring So, I would get to know each of the frameworks. I would align it with the data that you collect. That you're able to collect and authenticate. And just start there, don't worry about leaving things blank.
Stefan Pagacik: it's much better to answer the questions that you can answer and that you can fully justify the data. You can fully justify where it came from and build upon that rather than trying to just give glorified answers because I trust me, You will be. Unmasked, as it were.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah.
Rachel Baker: What regulatory agencies, monitor your products and how do you work with them?
Alan Kaufman: Yeah, and that just goes back to the word I used before. Transparency. I think that's the most important thing you can do in any of these regulatory issues is be transparent,…
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead Alan.
Alan Kaufman: because once you're not transparent, it will come back.
Alan Kaufman: In my world, it was the Federal Trade Commission. In the FDA.
Alan Kaufman: basically, in terms of working with them, it was more of them working with The Federal Trade Commission in the United States, Often, let's industries monitor themselves as long as they do it. and so in several of the parts of the industry that I worked in over the years, we had our own groups that monitored and the Federal Trade Commission was happy. So they stayed away. The FDA was another story. And working with them, could be a little bit more challenging we had. production, This is a whole different category. Now we have production of ear piercing products that were made in the Dominican Republic. And they were sent into the United States and cassettes that included.
Alan Kaufman: Alcohol pads. it turned out that Someone in China had sent in. Huge quantities of alcohol, pads that had issues. So the FDA shut down everything to do with alcohol pads. And we had
Alan Kaufman: an issue where every shipment in from the Dominican Republic was held in quarantine by the FDA trying to work with them. directly was a little bit of a challenge trying to work through an FDA attorney that we thought would then be, maybe we chose the wrong one, but that made things worse, and at the end of the day, It was challenging enough that we stopped putting the alcohol pads in the product. Which was a major communication issued all of our customers because that's what they were expecting.
Alan Kaufman: And so sometimes it can be difficult you have to. But that's an example of a workaround. We just had a change the way we handled our product and our supply chain, have a go account when the FDA showed up at the door for an unannounced inspection.
Rachel Baker: Can you talk to me about…
Alan Kaufman: That's where the transparency and…
Rachel Baker: how you use sustainability to position your brand and…
Alan Kaufman: just stopping everything and letting them take control because it was very clear.
Rachel Baker: build a competitive advantage?
Alan Kaufman: The first time we had that experience that when they come through the door, if you don't do that you're not gonna have a good experience.
Stefan Pagacik: I think
Stefan Pagacik: there are many companies. there's different ways to answer that question. Rachel, It can start with packaging, just in terms of the packaging that you use for the Sourcing of materials. Again, Fair wage rates fairly, sustainable labor practices. There are a number of different ways that you can position and it depends on the audience, really it's like, You have to know your customer and know what they want and what they care about. if they care about things like, are you sourcing or building your product in a factory which
Stefan Pagacik: Hires children and basically makes them work 12 hours a day with no bathroom breaks. That's not a good thing and maybe you can get away with it for a while because nobody's really checking up on you. But in this day and age, that's a hard thing to do because we have so many outlets for news and for people uncovering, bad corporate behavior that it's really risky to do that.
Stefan Pagacik: So I would say that from a branding and positioning think about your customer, think about what they care about. think about how much additionality and by additionality, I mean from a customer experience perspective from a use perspective, is your product better than somebody else's product. Are you giving the complete experience to your customer? Do they care about it? Will they pay for it?
Stefan Pagacik: And does that position you as a leader is it enough for you to gain brand leadership, by leaning on sustainability? Is this something that really is going to set you apart and enable you to reach a whole different segment of the marketplace that you couldn't reach beforehand? I think those are the questions you have to ask yourself when you're thinking about Brandon Positioning.
Rachel Baker: And do you need a crisis management plan which includes issues of sustainability? And what would that look like?
Alan Kaufman: without question, I think, one of the most important things for all companies is to have a crisis management plan and it should cover all areas that they could potentially have a crisis. The. Last company I worked for Did 24 acquisitions in the period of time that I was there. And we saw the difference between those who had crisis management plans and those who didn't have crisis management plans. In crises, whether it's in sustainability or not, they can happen on the dime. They can happen with one phone call from one major vendor or one phone call from one major customer. And the key is to know what to do next. And maybe you don't. Maybe the answer to that. Is not necessarily that, exactly what to do, but who to pick up the phone and call that will know what to do.
Alan Kaufman: so, I think Going back to what I had said before, were many companies in the industry, may not be large enough to support their own sustainability, experts to have a relationship with somebody…
Rachel Baker: Yeah.
Alan Kaufman: who is and if all of a sudden you have a crisis on sustainability,…
Rachel Baker: Last question.
Alan Kaufman: whether through the consumers,…
Alan Kaufman: whether through PR and article about your company, shows up in the newspaper. You have somebody that
Rachel Baker: Can you comment on the importance of reporting on sustainability activities,…
Rachel Baker: in supply chains?
Alan Kaufman: who to call. and I would encourage anybody that doesn't have a crisis management plan that that's critical.
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, I think I mean, Alan you've talked about it at length and I think you've really articulated some key issues.
Alan Kaufman: I think. you want to have the reporting in a format. That's appropriate to your customer, when that's the retailer or the consumer and those are two different formats. the retailers, especially the large retailers, they're gonna have their experts,…
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah, I think for the supply chain.
Alan Kaufman: they're gonna want a specific format,…
Stefan Pagacik: And again, you need to coordinate collection data analysis.
Alan Kaufman: they're gonna want hard facts, numbers, etc, and how you got there. The consumers is more a marketing piece,…
Stefan Pagacik: And make sure that everybody in your supply chain,…
Alan Kaufman: the one I showed you from Viking.
Stefan Pagacik: understands how you're going to put this out there.
Alan Kaufman: And
Stefan Pagacik: As a report as Allen said to either a retailer, a consumer,…
Alan Kaufman: I think that's just The two different ways you want…
Stefan Pagacik: a regulatory body. You've got to consider all these different stakeholders.
Alan Kaufman: Look at that.
Stefan Pagacik: And so, the information has to be consistent because at any one time, Somebody could question somebody in your ecosystem and if they give it a different answer or if they are, give a different process than what you're touting on your website or through your 10K filings or whatever. That's going to land you in some trouble. that's going to create
Stefan Pagacik: That's gonna create a situation that you simply don't want to have to deal with. So it's really, really important to harmonize that whole process. It's time consuming. Yes, it is labor intensive. And initially it's not cost effective. But at the end of the day, And if you're playing the long game, it will pay off for you. You'll avoid a lot of what we've talked about here today, especially with legal and compliance
Stefan Pagacik: Yeah.
Rachel Baker: Thank you. Are there any other questions from our audience?
Alan Kaufman: And I would just bring that back to the statement that I shared before. Don't do anything with respect to sustainability of…
Rachel Baker: No. Okay, thank you. before we sign off,…
Alan Kaufman: what you put on paper that you can't back up that you would be concerned…
Rachel Baker: Stefan, you are running a pilot program.
Alan Kaufman: if it showed up on the front page in the newspaper.
Rachel Baker: Right now. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Stefan Pagacik: I'm sure I'm actually running a feasibility study which is the front end of a pilot program and I'm looking for companies that are interested in diving into sustainability, finding out what they're doing with their own sustainability efforts. specifically around carbon accounting. Because I'm really interested. I have a model that I think is going to help monetize and put a value. On these efforts. And so I'm going out and asking companies if they want to participate in the study and if anybody would like to learn more, they can do. So Rachel has the information and she can pass it along to you?
Rachel Baker: Yeah, we'll be sending a follow-up email. That will include information about Stefan's feasibility study, as well as the recording for today's information session. So Absolutely reach out to Stefan. Has he's a lovely guy and I think what he's doing is really cool. thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Alan and Stefan for doing this webinar with me.
Stefan Pagacik: Thank you.
Rachel Baker: I really appreciate it and have a lovely rest of your day. Bye.
Stefan Pagacik: Thanks Rachel.
Alan Kaufman: Thanks Rachel.
Allen Donaldson: Thanks.
Alan Kaufman: Thanks everybody.
Meeting ended after 00:45:32 👋